More stuff from Stewart Rieckman
Stewart Rieckman wrote to me the other day to explain that he really did get the April Fool's joke about the Winnebago Wind Farm and to let me know that he is planning to write about Oshkosh News in next week's column:
Here's what I wrote back:
Dear Mr. McGuire,
I got the joke when he sent it to us. But just so I'm clear: "Working Together For a New Kind of Journalism" is an all inclusive concept that requires no veracity, no editing, no concern about truth telling, buyer beware, no criteria, no fact checking, throw everything against the wall and shrug our shoulders if someone doesn't get the joke? Is that about right? I just want to make sure I define it correctly in next week's column.
Sincerely,
Stewart Rieckman,
executive editor
Oshkosh Northwestern
Here's what I wrote back:
Dear Mr. Rieckman:
I think you are missing the point of my earlier message. You see: I did edit the submission to include the link showing that the posting was an April Fool's joke.
So clearly "Working Together for a New Kind of Journalism" doesn't mean that there is no editing.
But since we both seem to care deeply about newspaper editing, I'd like to issue a challenge that could serve to shine a spotlight on this often-neglected topic.
My bet is that in any given week I can find at least 35 instances where the Northwestern has had an editing lapse (if we started this week, I'd start with the grammatical errors in your column). By "editing lapse" I mean any and all of the things that editors are supposed to take care of: spelling, grammar, word choice, sentence structure, factual accuracy, fairness, balance, headlines and so on.
If I'm right, you send me a check for $35 payable to the Oshkosh Community News Network, and you'll get a year's membership in the organization (and your payment will be tax-deductible). If I'm wrong, I'll send you a $35 gift certificate for dinner at a local restaurant of your choice.
I’m looking forward to reading your column next Sunday. It will answer the question of how much concern you have for some of the things that you mentioned in your e-mail, such as editing, veracity, truth telling and fact checking. Will you, for example, spell my name correctly? Dare you even give the correct name for the Oshkosh News Web site and its sponsor?
I also wonder if the irony is lost on you that your column often manifests the qualities that are so often ascribed to bloggers: forceful expressions of opinion, one-sided interpretations of fact, a highly personalized writing style. If that’s good enough for the Northwestern, why isn’t that good enough for everyone else?
If you are interested in understanding more about the participatory journalism phenomenon, here are a couple of links that might help you:
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/workplace/1060217106.php
http://weblog.siliconvalley.com/column/dangillmor/archives/000924.shtml#000924
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wemedia/book/index.csp
Good luck with your research!
Sincerely,
Miles Maguire
20 Comments:
In Oshkosh, there are two blogs which claim to promote "participatory journalism." On the other one, the moderator deletes all posts that she doesn't agree with. If these are the journalistic standards by which we measure blogging, the bar is set pretty low.
Blogs have been deleted not because I disagreed with them. Certain ones were removed because they were inflammatory and mean-spirited; others were removed because they bordered on plaigerism. Bottom line is it is my site and I have never claimed it promotes or was designed for "participatory journalism."
Cheryl Hentz
Now all posts at that 'other' site have been removed.
I guess that makes it now 'dictatorial journalism'
Thanks for making your true thoughts known.
How much do these two lines sound alike:
"Bottom line is it is my site and I have never claimed it promotes or was designed for "participatory journalism.""
and
"If I don't get my way, I'm going to take my ball and go home!"
Yes all the comments have been cloaked for now. They're not actualy removed - they're in the background and can be accessed if someone knows how to. That became ncessary when soome people did not know how to conduct themselves, forcing me to become the sole arbiter of what gets posted and what doesn't. It is, at least for now, just like any other web site owned and operated by another person or organization. You are unable, for example, to post things on the Oshkosh Northwestern's site or the Post Crecent's site - not even the Advance Titan site or those of local radio stations. Tony Palmeri does not alow people to automatically post thigns on his site either, unless he approves the message. Yet I don't hear you bitchin' about any of that?
As to your comment about taking one's ball and going home, in case you hadn't noticed, on my site IT IS HOME. I'm sorry you can't seem to see the difference and insist on trying to put words in people's mouths or put your own spin on things.
Let's just agree to disagree. It will be the only thing we agree on, perhaps.
Cheryl Hentz
I hope Ms. Hentz's supporters recognize she feels that only she should be the only gatekeeper of information in these last crucial days before the election.
I think this bodes well for the sort of councilor that she will be.
It is obvious that the only opinions she considers valid are those she 'allows' into her world.
Will complaints from constituents force her to "become the sole arbiter" of information from the board and the city.
Things sure look up for open and honest government if Hentz, Esslinger and anyone else listed on this week's Northwestern stuffer are elected.
I guess it just makes sense, they were not willing to put their own names on the stuffer as the ones paying for it - they had to make up an organization to appear to have support.
It really is too bad for them that this website and the Northwestern are allowing information not approved by Hentz and Esslinger to surface.
Heck, they obviously believe that the truth will ruin their chances.
Speaking of putting names on things, I see you do not seem to have the collective courage to put yours on your comments. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. However, be that as it may, "Macbeth," I will again point out for those who are not quite up to speed on the learning curve, what I do on my own site with my own private business ventures or anything else that is mine is my business. When others are involved and it is not my sole entity, they are given full consideration and disclosure. And THAT is what the citizens of this community need to be aware of.
If you knew even 1/10 about me you would understand that. But it is very apparent from the ignorance of your comments that you have not one slim clue as to what kind of board member I have been in my 12 years of service to this city, nor do have the tiniest clue what kind of council member I would be if elected. And yet it is people who like you who say I (and those ike me) are close-minded and non-progressive. Interesting!
Finally just to set the record straight for you, it would make no sense and take up too much space to list all members of the Citizens group on advertising. Moreover it is not necessary nor required under the law. But we have never been secretive about who we are or what we stand for. In addition, the group was started long before I decided to run for council and it will remain a viable entity long after April 5 - whether I win or lose. Incidentally, did you raise the same concerns about NICE several years ago and the advertising and/or candidates they supported?? I thought not!
Try as you may to find something sinister or candestine, it simply is not what you make it out to be. You are grasping at straws; maybe if you keep trying you'll be able to put the broom together. Until then, here's wishing you a pleasant day!
Cheryl Hentz
"Yet I don't hear you bitchin' about any of that?"
Now that is the sort of eloquence and tactful oratory that we need as the public face of our City's government.
Her face in city government would be better than yours.
Wasn't it Lady Macbeth who said...OUT DAMN SPOT?! So please Macbeth out already. You are the very type of single sighted person that makes the rest of us want nothing to do with politics. You also sound a great deal like that awful Jef Hall and Gordon Hintz.Are you all cut from the same cloth as well?
While I too miss the ability to read comments posted on the Eye on Oshkosh site. I have also seen how several of the same people want to control and manipulate others comments.
Ms Hentz, I hope that you will reconsider your position with regard to the posting. You and your program as well as your informational website serve a most useful purpose.
I, for one appreciate what you do and how you have handled yourself throughout the entire campaign.
There are those of us out here that enjoy your spirit and quick wit, that is mostly lost on the poor soles that have the mind set "Win at any cost" Opps, that wasn't really meant to be a double ontandra, yet there it is.
So, let's get this straight....
Anything you do, Ms Hentz, is your own business. However, you encouraged a very long discussion on your site about Mr. Harris' employment situation, because you thought is was important to people's ability to vote.
It is to bad you have hidden all of the comments on your site, otherwise we could link to it and show everyone your hypocrisy.
Again, you only want to play on your own field with your own ball.
According to a personal communication from Miles Maguire, "Oshkosh News is open to any member of the community for personal, commercial or political communications." Can the same be said of the Oshkosh Northwestern? The answer is a definite 'no.' It has, as a matter of fact, banned certain messengers from their pages, regardless of the merit of the content of their messages (letters to the editor, etc.). Given their status as the official and only city newspaper, this amounts to excommunicating, muting, and denying the access of certain members of the community to full participation in the social, intellectual and political life of the community. At the very least, such policy is heavy handed, if not illegal or unethical.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but, presumably, anything that amounts to slander or abuse may be excluded from this blog. (By today's standards, even that minimal limitation may be considered illiberal.) Under the freedom of speech laws of the US, it is the burden of the slandered to prove the statements at issue to be false. Whereas, in England, for example, the burden is on the speaker to prove her/his statements to be true. I don't know, but this may be at the root of the issue at hand. Be that as it may.
Now, don't ask me what I mean to imply by all this. It’s just a naked thought. Let it lead where it may.
To "Gildenstern,"
You made an excellent point - ALL the comments are hidden, just ones that I don't like or disapprove of, but ALL of them - good, bad or indifferent. Therefore there is no hypocrisy. And my comments about other web sites not allowing anything to be freely posted stand.
i will be very releived when this election cycle is over. The people it has brought out in support of some of these candidates is a disgrace. So much so that even the candidates themselves didn't want to be associated with these peoples names or wacky views.
While we are protected under the first amendment. We must also recognize that this has limits and responsibility.
If you demand protection, are you equally as willing to defend?
Those who hide behind the constitution as though it was designed to protect cowards and liars are fooling themselves. These people will only ever cast shadows and never leave a true mark on this community.
Ms. Hentz, we seem understandable angry. I ask you only why? Are these not the same type of people you have campaigned against before? Are these not the same people that no matter what you do, you will not be correct? Answer they are indeed!
In this country one of the most beloved traits is to debate, disagree and question. You Ms Hentz have done a superior job and need not apologize nor be angry. Be proud!
To others that will disagree, start our own website, start your own show, run for office, be something more than a stain.
GOD BLESS AMERICAN
To Cheryl:
To correct a small error.
"You are unable, for example, to post things on the Oshkosh Northwestern's site or the Post Crecent's site - not even the Advance Titan site or those of local radio stations. Tony Palmeri does not alow people to automatically post things on his site either, unless he approves the message."
The Advance Titan site does allow you to post things anonymously. I hope you check it out.
"GOD BLESS AMERICAN"
Election over, I finally feel comfortable poking serious fun at that hysterical mistake from Cheryl's anonymous pal.
In fact, if I had more time I might pick out many of Cheryl's OWN numerous grammatical, spelling, and factual errors. As someone who claims to make a living as a freelance writer, Cheryl, shouldn't you be more aware of the quality of the writings you create for the public to see? Especially when running for office?
The other odd part is that as of this morning, 4/08, three days after the election, her site is still locked up with no comments able to be read or posted. I realize by now that it is "her site" but you would think that maybe a sense of normalcy would return at some point.
There are no "claims" of making her living as a freelance writer. All you have to do is look at various publications around the state and you can find her work. It is a fact. But alas, ignorance abounds. Also, you may want to take note that she did not say she was an editor, whose job it usually is to catch things like misspellings that may occur because someone is in a hurry, grammatical errors or any other things that can occur when human beings are at work. Again, I guess ignorance is bliss.
It is so refreshing to see that the jerks whose faces were shown so much during this election and who made it their personal mission to be mean-spirited still feel it necessary to emerge from their holes. No wonder Ms. Hentz won't allow nasty comments to be posted. However her site will allow things to be submitted for posting, just so people who aren't quite as ingorant as you would like to know.
There are different definitions for normalcy. Yours apparently means having a web site where you can spew forth venom onto. We saw enough of that during the past three months. Normalcy is also not spending more than people can afford. But sadly we will continue to see that for the next year.
What do running for office and making typographical errors have to do with each other? Why not take a look at the huge number of business people and corporate executives who make mistakes - not only in spelling, but grammar, tense and usage. Our own local paper makes a lot of mistakes, too. There are many in education who do't get it right much of the time either. Those are more important, I believe. But I appreciate your concern about my career - political or otherwise.
- Cheryl Hentz
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